Discussion Group B2 - Revision history

AdrianRennie: /* Discsussion Notes */ Further information

2015-04-19T13:30:09Z

Discsussion Notes: Further information

← Older revision		Revision as of 13:30, 19 April 2015
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	There were no specific formal presentations made during this discussion session. An introduction to the topic had been provided by the earlier talk of Adrian Rennie: [[media:Rennie_Learning_about_SAS_upload.pdf‎ \| Learning about SAS from Round-Robin Measurements ]].		There were no specific formal presentations made during this discussion session. An introduction to the topic had been provided by the earlier talk of Adrian Rennie: [[media:Rennie_Learning_about_SAS_upload.pdf‎ \| Learning about SAS from Round-Robin Measurements ]].

	== ~~Discsussion~~ Notes ==		== Discussion Notes ==

	=== What is needed? ===		=== What is needed? ===
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	For SAXS measurements it is possible to use samples dispersed in a mixture of ethanol and water. This increases the contrast so that the signal is less dominated by the surface functionality.		For SAXS measurements it is possible to use samples dispersed in a mixture of ethanol and water. This increases the contrast so that the signal is less dominated by the surface functionality.

			=== Actions ===

			* A list was circulated for participants to indicate which of the three samples mentioned above they would be interested to measure. For people not present at the discussion session, this information should be sent by-email to Adrian Rennie.

			* Adrian Rennie will gather information about how much sample is available and what is needed for different measurements.

AdrianRennie: /* Discsussion Notes */ Add more details

2015-04-19T12:34:58Z

Discsussion Notes: Add more details

← Older revision		Revision as of 12:34, 19 April 2015
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	== Discsussion Notes ==		== Discsussion Notes ==

			=== What is needed? ===

	We started by asking what people would like from 'round-robin', 'reference' and 'calibration' samples.		We started by asking what people would like from 'round-robin', 'reference' and 'calibration' samples.
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	It was noted that no single sample might be ideal for all of these purposes across a range of instruments for both X-ray and neutron scattering. Some of the difficulties with presently available samples were discussed.		It was noted that no single sample might be ideal for all of these purposes across a range of instruments for both X-ray and neutron scattering. Some of the difficulties with presently available samples were discussed.

			=== Ideas for new samples for comparative measurements ===

	Several ideas for samples were discussed and it was recognized that some of these would need initial tests as they had not been tested. These were also presented and augmented in the general discussion.		Several ideas for samples were discussed and it was recognized that some of these would need initial tests as they had not been tested. These were also presented and augmented in the general discussion.
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	*crystallites in glasses (quantum dots)		*crystallites in glasses (quantum dots)

	It was noted that some of these ideas for samples do not represent readily available samples and that it would be necessary to make tests or engage in preparatory work. Participants were encouraged to try these and then engage further with others for comparative tests.		It was noted that some of these ideas for samples do not represent readily available samples and that it would be necessary to make tests or engage in preparatory work. Participants were encouraged to try these and then engage further with others for initial comparative tests or at least measure with their own instruments.

			=== Available Samples ===

	A further list of samples that are now available and could be circulated to further laboratories was drawn up		A further list of samples that are now available and could be circulated to further laboratories was drawn up
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	*Silver behenate from a single batch		*Silver behenate from a single batch
	*Porous carbon		*Porous carbon
	*~~polystyrene~~ latex particles (from previous round robin)		*Polystyrene latex particles (from previous round robin)


	=== Remarks about Silver Behenate ===		==== Remarks about Silver Behenate ====

	Discussion about silver behenate samples noted that apart from the well-known possibility of thermal and light induced degradation, some samples apparently showed different 'c' lattice parameters as determined from the 00l Bragg reflections. Care could be needed to dry the sample carefully. A further comment was that X-ray data that is measured at high resolution can show asymmetric peak shapes that could complicate the simple determination of the position. Measurements with neutron (SANS) instruments do not usually resolve the peak shape.		Discussion about silver behenate samples noted that apart from the well-known possibility of thermal and light induced degradation, some samples apparently showed different 'c' lattice parameters as determined from the 00l Bragg reflections. Care could be needed to dry the sample carefully. A further comment was that X-ray data that is measured at high resolution can show asymmetric peak shapes that could complicate the simple determination of the position. Measurements with neutron (SANS) instruments do not usually resolve the peak shape.

	=== Polystyrene Latex ===		==== Polystyrene Latex ====

	Samples of the same latex (PS3) as measured in previous comparative measurements are still available and diluted samples could be provided to laboratories interested in making further measurements.		Samples of the same latex (PS3) as measured in previous comparative measurements are still available and diluted samples could be provided to laboratories interested in making further measurements.

AdrianRennie: /* Presentations */ Add link to slides from plenary talk

2015-04-19T12:24:30Z

Presentations: Add link to slides from plenary talk

← Older revision		Revision as of 12:24, 19 April 2015
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	== Presentations ==		== Presentations ==
			There were no specific formal presentations made during this discussion session. An introduction to the topic had been provided by the earlier talk of Adrian Rennie: [[media:Rennie_Learning_about_SAS_upload.pdf‎ \| Learning about SAS from Round-Robin Measurements ]].

	== Discsussion Notes ==		== Discsussion Notes ==

AdrianRennie: /* Discsussion Notes */ Update with some ideas about samples

2015-04-19T12:21:29Z

Discsussion Notes: Update with some ideas about samples

← Older revision		Revision as of 12:21, 19 April 2015
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			=== Remarks about Silver Behenate ===

			Discussion about silver behenate samples noted that apart from the well-known possibility of thermal and light induced degradation, some samples apparently showed different 'c' lattice parameters as determined from the 00l Bragg reflections. Care could be needed to dry the sample carefully. A further comment was that X-ray data that is measured at high resolution can show asymmetric peak shapes that could complicate the simple determination of the position. Measurements with neutron (SANS) instruments do not usually resolve the peak shape.

	to ~~be continued~~		=== Polystyrene Latex ===

			Samples of the same latex (PS3) as measured in previous comparative measurements are still available and diluted samples could be provided to laboratories interested in making further measurements.

			Some information about the previous results is shown on this wiki and in a publication. See [[ Latex Round Robin ]].

			For SAXS measurements it is possible to use samples dispersed in a mixture of ethanol and water. This increases the contrast so that the signal is less dominated by the surface functionality.

AdrianRennie: /* Discsussion Notes */

2015-04-15T22:41:20Z

Discsussion Notes

← Older revision		Revision as of 22:41, 15 April 2015
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	Some ideas that were mentioned are:		Some ideas that were mentioned are:

	*copolymers that show a correlation peak (e.g. styrene/polyisobutylene)		*copolymers that show a correlation peak (e.g. styrene/polyisobutylene from Kraton)
	*microfabricated samples such as gratings		*microfabricated samples such as gratings
	*deuterated sodium dodecyl sulfate crystals		*deuterated sodium dodecyl sulfate crystals

AdrianRennie: /* Discsussion Notes */

2015-04-15T22:24:23Z

Discsussion Notes

← Older revision		Revision as of 22:24, 15 April 2015
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	A further list of samples that are now available and could be circulated to further laboratories was drawn up		A further list of samples that are now available and could be circulated to further laboratories was drawn up

	Silver behenate from a single batch		*Silver behenate from a single batch
	Porous carbon		*Porous carbon
	polystyrene latex particles (from previous round robin)		*polystyrene latex particles (from previous round robin)

AdrianRennie: /* Discsussion Notes */ updates

2015-04-15T22:23:50Z

Discsussion Notes: updates

← Older revision		Revision as of 22:23, 15 April 2015
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	* resolution		* resolution

	The sample should be stable, non-toxic and should be available in sufficient quantity to be spread widely.		The sample should be stable, non-toxic and should be available in sufficient quantity to be spread widely. It is desirable that samples are easy to measure: eliminate user errors. Scattering should be sufficiently strong that measurement times are reasonably short.

	It was noted that no single sample might be ideal for all of these purposes across a range of instruments for both X-ray and neutron scattering.		It was noted that no single sample might be ideal for all of these purposes across a range of instruments for both X-ray and neutron scattering. Some of the difficulties with presently available samples were discussed.

	Several ideas for samples were discussed and it was recognized that some of these would need initial tests as they had not been tested. These were also presented and augmented in the general discussion.		Several ideas for samples were discussed and it was recognized that some of these would need initial tests as they had not been tested. These were also presented and augmented in the general discussion.

	Some ideas were:		Some ideas that were mentioned are:

	*copolymers that show a correlation peak (e.g. styrene/polyisobutylene)		*copolymers that show a correlation peak (e.g. styrene/polyisobutylene)
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	*deuterated sodium dodecyl sulfate crystals		*deuterated sodium dodecyl sulfate crystals
	*polymers filled with silica or other particles		*polymers filled with silica or other particles
			*Irradiated light metals with pores
			*metal alloys with precipitates - iron or nickel (e.g. WASP alloys) based
			*patterned gold foils: Nano fabricated materials,e-beam fabricated samples
			*anodized aluminium foils
			*photo patterned polymers
			*lithographically-prepared samples
			*crystallites in glasses (quantum dots)

			It was noted that some of these ideas for samples do not represent readily available samples and that it would be necessary to make tests or engage in preparatory work. Participants were encouraged to try these and then engage further with others for comparative tests.

			A further list of samples that are now available and could be circulated to further laboratories was drawn up

			Silver behenate from a single batch
			Porous carbon
			polystyrene latex particles (from previous round robin)




	to be continued		to be continued

AdrianRennie: /* Discsussion Notes */

2015-04-15T09:35:51Z

Discsussion Notes

← Older revision		Revision as of 09:35, 15 April 2015
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	== Discsussion Notes ==		== Discsussion Notes ==

			We started by asking what people would like from 'round-robin', 'reference' and 'calibration' samples.

			As regards calibration there is need to verify:

			* momentum transfer
			* intensity
			* resolution

			The sample should be stable, non-toxic and should be available in sufficient quantity to be spread widely.

			It was noted that no single sample might be ideal for all of these purposes across a range of instruments for both X-ray and neutron scattering.

			Several ideas for samples were discussed and it was recognized that some of these would need initial tests as they had not been tested. These were also presented and augmented in the general discussion.

			Some ideas were:

			*copolymers that show a correlation peak (e.g. styrene/polyisobutylene)
			*microfabricated samples such as gratings
			*deuterated sodium dodecyl sulfate crystals
			*polymers filled with silica or other particles


			to be continued

Butler at 22:56, 14 April 2015

2015-04-14T22:56:46Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 22:56, 14 April 2015
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			===Collaborative development of reference and calibration standards and the next round robins ===

	== Discussion Leaders ==		== Discussion Leaders ==

Butler: Created page with "== Discussion Leaders == * Adrian Rennie == Presentations == == Discsussion Notes =="

2015-04-14T22:50:01Z

Created page with "== Discussion Leaders == <b> * Adrian Rennie </b> == Presentations == == Discsussion Notes =="

New page

== Discussion Leaders ==

<b>
* Adrian Rennie
</b>

== Presentations ==

== Discsussion Notes ==