Group3 - Revision history

Butler at 22:44, 8 June 2017

2017-06-08T22:44:43Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 22:44, 8 June 2017
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	1. A flag signalling significant multiple scattering would be good for both data reduction software (to allow for immediate action!) and data analysis/modelling software.		1. A flag signalling significant multiple scattering would be good for both data reduction software (to allow for immediate action!) and data analysis/modelling software.
			* Requires data on absolute scale, together with values for wavelength and sample path length – or a well-determined measured SAS transmission. Good example of a situation where wavelength and path length would be nice to have accessible in the final reduced data file.
	- Requires data on absolute scale, together with values for wavelength and sample path length – or a well-determined measured SAS transmission. Good example of a situation where wavelength and path length would be nice to have accessible in the final reduced data file.		* Could identify the maximum scattering order that should be included in the data analysis – or suggest a proper sample path length or wavelength that would be required to exclude significant multiple scattering effects.
			* Could suggest measurements for a small series of wavelengths/path lengths/contrasts, to identify features influenced by multiple scattering. These data could/should (?) be published with the data to address/prove the presence/non-presence of these effects.
	- Could identify the maximum scattering order that should be included in the data analysis – or suggest a proper sample path length or wavelength that would be required to exclude significant multiple scattering effects.

	- Could suggest measurements for a small series of wavelengths/path lengths/contrasts, to identify features influenced by multiple scattering. These data could/should (?) be published with the data to address/prove the presence/non-presence of these effects.


	2. Including multiple scattering effects in the data analysis		2. Including multiple scattering effects in the data analysis
			* Relevant for both SAS in transmission geometry and for GISAS.
	- Relevant for both SAS in transmission geometry and for GISAS.		* Include calculation of higher order scattering functions in model calculations and parameter optimization loop? By 2D convolution or MC simulations?
			* To speed calculations up, one might consider: Only include the relevant scattering orders, starting out with ‘just’ including second order scattering, only updating higher order scattering functions every N steps in the optimization, ...
	- Include calculation of higher order scattering functions in model calculations and parameter optimization loop? By 2D convolution or MC simulations?

	- To speed calculations up, one might consider: Only include the relevant scattering orders, starting out with ‘just’ including second order scattering, only updating higher order scattering functions every N steps in the optimization, ...

AdrianRennie: Add discussion

2017-06-07T16:11:19Z

Add discussion

← Older revision		Revision as of 16:11, 7 June 2017
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	Grethe Jensen Leading		Grethe Jensen Leading


			We discussed approaches for considering multiple scattering effects. The following points were identified

			1. A flag signalling significant multiple scattering would be good for both data reduction software (to allow for immediate action!) and data analysis/modelling software.

			- Requires data on absolute scale, together with values for wavelength and sample path length – or a well-determined measured SAS transmission. Good example of a situation where wavelength and path length would be nice to have accessible in the final reduced data file.

			- Could identify the maximum scattering order that should be included in the data analysis – or suggest a proper sample path length or wavelength that would be required to exclude significant multiple scattering effects.

			- Could suggest measurements for a small series of wavelengths/path lengths/contrasts, to identify features influenced by multiple scattering. These data could/should (?) be published with the data to address/prove the presence/non-presence of these effects.


			2. Including multiple scattering effects in the data analysis

			- Relevant for both SAS in transmission geometry and for GISAS.

			- Include calculation of higher order scattering functions in model calculations and parameter optimization loop? By 2D convolution or MC simulations?

			- To speed calculations up, one might consider: Only include the relevant scattering orders, starting out with ‘just’ including second order scattering, only updating higher order scattering functions every N steps in the optimization, ...

Butler at 02:05, 6 June 2017

2017-06-06T02:05:47Z

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	NOTES FOR GROUP C		NOTES FOR GROUP C

			Grethe Jensen Leading

Butler at 21:40, 5 June 2017

2017-06-05T21:40:31Z

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	GROUP C ~~NOTES~~		NOTES FOR GROUP C

Butler: Replaced content with "GROUP C NOTES"

2017-06-05T20:38:54Z

Replaced content with "GROUP C NOTES"

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	GROUP C NOTES		GROUP C NOTES

	~~Brian Pauw Leading~~

	~~=== Discussed: ===~~
	* Lack of tools and/or awareness thereof outside of biosas - In particular fitting and modeling tools
	* Publishing best practice data correction for different standard types of measurements
	** specially GI
	** multiple scattering estimation and ways to handle
	* Q and resolution standard
	* More complex round robins
	* Certification of range of validity of instruments?
	* Database of corrected measurements for a wide range of materials with associated metada in NXcanSAS format preferably - maybe something like a like a PDB for materials? Or other? – good metadata important, tags need to be defined so you don't end up using different names for the same thing – new SLAC effort could potentially be co-opted for such a purpose?
	* Uncertainties in multiple techniques fits
	* Tools for multiple scattering would be useful

	~~=== Top Thoughts for Going Forward ===~~
	* Publishing best practice data correction and terminology for different standard types of measurements
	* Database of corrected measurements for a wide range of materials with associated metada in NXcanSAS format preferably

Butler at 20:09, 5 June 2017

2017-06-05T20:09:56Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 20:09, 5 June 2017
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	NOTES ~~from GROUP 3~~		GROUP C NOTES

			Brian Pauw Leading

			=== Discussed: ===
			* Lack of tools and/or awareness thereof outside of biosas - In particular fitting and modeling tools
			* Publishing best practice data correction for different standard types of measurements
			** specially GI
			** multiple scattering estimation and ways to handle
			* Q and resolution standard
			* More complex round robins
			* Certification of range of validity of instruments?
			* Database of corrected measurements for a wide range of materials with associated metada in NXcanSAS format preferably - maybe something like a like a PDB for materials? Or other? – good metadata important, tags need to be defined so you don't end up using different names for the same thing – new SLAC effort could potentially be co-opted for such a purpose?
			* Uncertainties in multiple techniques fits
			* Tools for multiple scattering would be useful

			=== Top Thoughts for Going Forward ===
			* Publishing best practice data correction and terminology for different standard types of measurements
			* Database of corrected measurements for a wide range of materials with associated metada in NXcanSAS format preferably

AdrianRennie at 18:34, 5 June 2017

2017-06-05T18:34:06Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 18:34, 5 June 2017
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	NOTES ~~fro~~ GROUP 3		NOTES from GROUP 3

Butler: Created page with "NOTES fro GROUP 3"

2017-06-05T17:58:54Z

Created page with "NOTES fro GROUP 3"

New page

NOTES fro GROUP 3